Bhagpuss commented on my previous WoW article that he never really cared to know how much DPS he was doing in a group, and was just satisfied if the instance went well. I can kinda see his point. It’s a game, right? As long as you’re having fun, the game is doing its job.
That’s one way to look at it. I, though, was a rogue in EverQuest. EQ rogues have a lot more going for them than WoW rogues; there’s a lot of things they can do that make them highly valued for their unique capabilities. They share with WoW rogues, though, the ability to do more single target melee damage than any other class.
That the dungeons I’m seeing in WoW seem built for magic AoE damage isn’t important here. I have faith that at some point in time, there will be dungeons where mobs with lots of hit points come one at a time. I’ll be ready.
I don’t have the option of ignoring my DPS. In WoW classic 5 man dungeons, that’s all I bring to the group. Nobody wants me to sap stuff or disable traps. For me to just be satisfied if the rest of the group could carry me through dungeons regardless of my performance would be really wrong.
I don’t need to be THE best. I’m not an achievement-oriented gamer. I just would like to know I’m playing at MY best.
So, to that end, I installed Recount, to track my DPS and compare it against the rest of the group. I also installed the much-reviled GearScore add-on, to instantly judge the level my gear against that of the rest of the group.
This is necessary. If someone is doing triple my DPS, I need to know why. If I mouse over them and it shows their GearScore being a thousand points ahead of mine, then I know they are twinked with the special twink stuff you can get at max level, and I don’t worry about it. If it’s in the same area as mine, then they are likely geared in blues won from dungeon encounters that they earned on that character, as I am.
With good buffs, my DPS in Blackrock Depths is between 200-250. This morning, the random dungeon finder took me to Dire Maul East for the first time. You can see that Recount put me at the bottom of the damage chart. The bottom three characters on that list had approximately the same GearScores. The top two were heavily twinked. Warstoge was the tank, was buffed better than me and had AEs. Still, I usually am in the same general level of damage as the tank, usually somewhat better. I was drastically under the bar this time (and I expected to get a comment about that, but I didn’t — they were a good group).
I’d noticed that my poisons were resisted in the instance. Most of the mobs are plants, and plants are mostly or entirely immune to nature damage — the sort of damage poisons cause. Reading through Recount’s damage detail made it clear. My damage is usually split fairly evenly through straight melee, Sinister Strike (my combo point-building move) and poisons — Instant Poison if mobs are dying fast, Deadly Poison if the are dying slowly enough for its DoT to make a difference. Since mobs were dying slowly (level 56-58, one to three levels above mine), I doubled up on Deadly Poison.
Now that I see how little effect damaging poisons have in the instance, next time I go I’ll know to focus on poisons with other effects. Nothing seemed to run, so Cripple is out. There were a lot of casters, so the poison that slows casting times might be a good one to have.
That done, it was time to hit up the auction house and sell all the instance loot. Though I already have enough in the bank to pay for my flying mount at level 60, the transition from classic gear to Burning Crusade gear, what with the gems and all, is going to get pricey. My GearScore also hadn’t changed much in awhile — small upgrades from BRD now and then, or side-grades like the fist weapon I won last night, but nothing spectacular. My DPS in Dire Maul was so bad, though, that I had to take action. I couldn’t rely on dungeon drops for all of my gear. I know that the best classic loot dungeons are still ahead of me, but my gear needs to be a certain level for the LFD tool to even offer them.
I did win a machete that increases my attack power vs elementals. I believe the trees in DM are classified as nature elementals, so that should help my dps considerably.
My gloves and belt, though both rare quality, had iLevels/GearScores well below the rest of my gear. Worship at the Auction House, and the Auction House will provide. I picked up two good upgrades and boosted my Gearscore fifty points.
I could probably just take what comes my way and not worry about my particular contribution to the group. I have only grouped twice with the same person more than once, I have absolutely no reputation to tarnish.
Maybe that’s the old EQ training, though. If I don’t know that I’m doing my best, it’s not worth playing at all. There’s no way I can compete with twinks, or the death knights I know I will soon encounter. I will never pass up an opportunity to compete with myself.
22 thoughts on “World of Warcraft: I suck at this whole DPS thing.”
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I already told you my “first week in WOTLK” dungeon experience: My Warlock had to cast Rain of Fire (AoE) to come close to the DPS of the DK tank in every instance. Especially Gun’Drak was an AoE fest. My buddy Steve was playing a Rogue, his Sap and any other CC ability were rarely needed, and kicking mobs to interrupt abilities rarely needed, only in Ulduar and Naxx sometimes, but not in the dungeons.
There is not necessarily something wrong with you or your gear, you can’t win if you do single damage vs massive constant AoE damage!
Oh, granted. I know there’s not much use for rogues these days in WoW, at least not in the random dungeon groups I’ve been in. I mostly just compare myself to the tank DPS (and you’re telling me that when I start grouping with DKs, I’ll even have to give that up). It’s not a little discouraging to play the least useful class in the game, but SOMEONE has to, right? I just need to know that I am doing all I can to contribute. I’m not extremely worried about my DPS, just as long as I can keep the number inching upward.
Dire Maul was horrible for my DPS, though. If I didn’t try to do something about it, I’d be cheating my future groups by making them take me when they could have gotten someone who cared 😛
That’s another nice thing about the LFD system. I doubt any regular PUGs would take a rogue if they could find any other class. With LFD, they don’t have a choice 🙂
You should be doing more damage than the tank, but I can’t remember what life as a rogue in the level 50s was like. As you start climbing above 60, you really should be doing more than the tank – which might, of course, be hard with all the BoA stuff going around these days. 🙂
Rogues might not be the most versatile class around, but even though AoE has been popular for a long time, I never had problems getting into groups or finding a spot in raids. People usually like rogues anyway, we look good and we unlock stuff. And do fun amounts of single-target DPS. And you do get Fan of Knives at some point, so there is at least some form of AoE we can play with.
Rogues are a lot of fun to play and I’ve never, ever regretted having one as my main for the last 3-4 years.
One thing to watch out for with Gearscore is that I think it scores heirloom gear very lowly (it counts as level 1 for iLvL purposes), so it might give other people a lower score than they should have in levelling content.
Also, at level 80, rogues get a handy AE attack which they can spam around the place. I know this won’t make you feel better at lower levels, but groups shouldn’t be too rough on it. And paladin and druid tanks in particular do a LOT of AE damage right from the get go. It’s actually not unusual for you to be below them, esp if they are better geared. At level 80 that all changes, for what it’s worth.
I have been playing WoW off and on, mostly with my priest – and I never really thought too hard about dps (or heals for that matter) until I saw others doing it. Now I’m tempted to install both recount (which I’ve heard good things about) and gearscore, though I’m still not sure how much I care about how I’m personally doing. We’ll see I suppose!
If you’re healing for groups, then your DPS isn’t important. But your spellpower is vital, and that is tied to your gearscore. I find these kinds of tools useful as a method of self assessment and continual improvement. I know you’re always improving your characters, so I think these would be perfect for you.
Two daggers
Assassination spec (screw combat)
Poisons
More hit rating
And this mod:
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/mutilate.aspx
DONE
At 80 I reach over 4K dps on stand and fight bosses.
Hi Tipa, been awhile since I’ve commented but I’m glad to see you’re giving WoW another chance. The Dungeon Finder is great.
Just wanted to chime in on Rogues here. They are not a useless class and people do want to group with them. In fact, they are one of the best DPS classes in the game right now and there is a nerf coming to the Mutilate spec soon because it’s so high.
There are several ways you could improve your DPS even at level 55.
-Looking at your Armory, I immediately notice your weapons are both “slow” (2.00+ speed) which is bad for Rogues. You’ll want a slow weapon in your mainhand and a fast one in your off-hand. It should be easy to find a fast sword. Even if the DPS is slightly lower, go for the better speed.
-Make sure you are keeping Slice and Dice up 100% of the time. I have no way of telling if you do that already or not, but I just wanted to mention it in case you don’t. This makes a bigger difference than you might realize. You can Slice and Dice immediately with your first combo point of a fight, it doesn’t matter how many you use really. Improved Slice and Dice and the Glyph will make the duration acceptable even off of one combo point. From there on, keeping SnD up takes priority over everything else.
-You’ll generally want to use Instant Poison mainhand and Deadly Poison offhand.
-Use your cooldowns freely. A lot of players get in the habit of “saving” them for a rough fight or a boss battle, but you’ll put out better overall DPS if you just fire them off as soon as possible. Of course, if you know you’re about to engage a boss within a minute or so you could hold off. You will usually want to stack Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry for maximum DPS.
-Lastly, consider respeccing. Your spec isn’t bad except for a few points that are hurting you. The biggest one is that you have skipped Hack and Slash in the combat tree, which is one of the best talents to grab. Your points spent in Assassination are good, but the problem is it will put you that much further away from Killing Spree and some of the other top end talents. For level 55, I might try something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fZMgVo0cxqru0xRo
In the end, I believe people should play however is fun for them (as long as it isn’t terribly detrimental to the other people in the group) and take the talents/gear they want to use, but eventually most of us will want to step it up and be a major contribution to any group or raid. Sometimes it can even be fun to push yourself and try to achieve #1 on the meters. Anyway, hope this helps you out if you decide to follow any of it. I was a top raiding Rogue for a long time before I retired it. 🙂
I always had a strong disliking for measuring DPS and gear stats… it really seems to take all of the fun out of everything. I mean, if your group or raid ‘wins’, who really cares? Certainly when I raided in EQ2, I felt like everything was just a competition to get onto the DPS charts after the end of each encounter. It’s a little sad because then these games become “rule playing” instead of “role playing” 🙁
I definitely feel that way in EQ2, where as a bard, I am expected to take on my support role and also score high on the dps charts (something I find impossible, leading to my general level of frustration with the game). But in a WoW or EQ1 group, that’s why you’re there. If a friend asked you to drive them somewhere in your Porsche, and you did eventually get there after the bus, train, and joggers got there before you, would you expect your friend to be satisfied?
WoW Rogues will never be a true rogue like EQ1, your dps will get better, it just takes gear and levels, and you will see an increase when you can hit outlands at 58
Gear is not really relevant. As long as you are doing the right things with gear (ie focusing on Agi, Crit, Hit) you’ll be fine with whatever gear you pick up. The only point that might make a difference is a fast offhand, because that will increase your energy regen and Deadly Poison procs.
Talent spec and ability rotation are much more important. I second Myrix’s spec above. The energy regen talents are extremely important. More energy = more Sinster Strikes = more finishers.
After that, it’s taking care of the basics. Keep Slice and Dice up at all times, then Rupture/Eviscerate (depending on how fast the bosses die). Always attack from behind the mob. If you attack from the front, the mob will parry 5% of your attacks. Pop cooldowns early and often, stacking them if you can.
None of this really matters until level 80, to be totally honest. The goal is to get from 1-80 as quickly as possible, and then start running heroics to get your armor and weapons. WoW really does start at level cap, but the old content isn’t really wasted. People still run Burning Crusade stuff for achievements, and the reputations and quests and everything are for the most part soloable. Anything cosmetic like pets or mounts that you would want to get can be easily done at 80, so no reason to stop and smell the roses or worry about iLevels on your gear yet 🙂
I’m currently leveling an Enhancement Shaman (level 66) with heirloom items (scaling items you can get at level 80 to use on new characters, these items improve with each level) and a decent amount of blue armor. I am usually the only person doing more damage than the tank in the groups I get aside from the occasional Ret Paladin or Death Knight who is decked out in similar gear. I think at low levels (which I consider every level below 80) tanks just do a lot of damage because everyone tanks with AoE skills now and it’s hard for the rest of the group to keep up with constant AoE coming from the tank. If you make it to level 80 and get a full set of epic gear and are still doing less than the tank…then it’s a problem 😉
I also think measuring DPS is kind of pointless outside of “Hey! I hit X number! New record! It’s over 9,000! Etc!” because DPS can spike. Damage Done is the best measure because it shows who is actually doing the most damage to something. It all depends on how the fight ends: someone might have gotten a huge spike from a lucky string of talent/weapon procs right at the end and wound up with 1,500 DPS done, but they did the second most damage after another person who did 1,000DPS the whole fight.
I’m not really a big fan of meters anyway, since there’s so many other factors (like a Mage removing a curse from someone to help out the healers) that aren’t factored into that one number. But I, like you, just have to know how I’m doing 😛 And it does help if there is one person that is waaaaay below everyone else, which you talked about in your post.
You can always read the rogue forums for more tips on dps rotations and spec info. I have learned a lot over the years reading up on specs and rotations from other players. WoW is all about rotations. Rogues = dps. They are a strong dps class, not the once cc class they once were as dungeons have evolved. This game has little use for cc anymore.
I wouldn’t worry so much about it, have fun. You have plenty of time to worry about when it matters- high end. By then you will be able to get nice gear and push yourself all you want 🙂
I wish you were a bloke Tipa. Then I could make all kinds of laddish jokes about your lack of martial prowess 🙂
Looking at all the info screens and stats you posted a strange thought struck me. Even though EVE and WOW are polar opposite ends of the MMORPG spectrum they both both have huge appeal to the min-maxing spreadsheet warrior. I just haven’t seen that level of minute stat analysis in other games.
I also agree that tanks just seem to put out a lot of damage during leveling. I think part of it is that they are generally tanking in DPS gear, and they just seem to do a lot of AE damage. I know when I am grouping as my DK tank, currently 62, I almost always top the meters and am generally quite a bit ahead.
I do like using recount as a healer, I noticed this more when wrath came out as opposed to now, but if you have some really terrible damage dealers in the group, it doesn’t matter how good of a healer you are you will run out of mana and wipe.
What server are you currently playing on? Are you interested in getting any sort of static group or just a duo together? Even if its only a few dungons a night or on the weekends?
“For me to just be satisfied if the rest of the group could carry me through dungeons regardless of my performance would be really wrong.”
Well, atleast for myself, your putting words in my mouth saying it’d be wrong – I wouldn’t say it is. If I’m forced to group, then as long as I can complete the dungeon everythings fine. And if I’m not forced to group, well if I invite you it means I like your (alas, only virtual) company.
@Sirhyl I play on the Kirin Tor server. I’m kind of reluctant to change servers at this time because I’d lose my guild (Snacks for the Horde? Should be Snacks FOR THE W1N!!!) and also my really expensive guild bank, plus I have no idea how long I’ll be playing. My current goal is to get to BC and see some of the new dungeons….
That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love to play with friends, though!
I’d stick with combat for levelling, as for dps be prepared to me a midcarder as WoW really has changed to World of AoEcraft….. this gets slightly better when you pick up fan of knives (level 80 i think- should be a level 60 talent imo).
A good rogue is always sought after as their single target dps is second to none, sure it sucks losing all the utility like Sap, disarm trap (as they just aint needed anymore) but on bosses you really come into your own. Try looking at boss fight only dps and you should be top or at least second (BoA items are massively OP so this may vary).
Finally dont be tempted to try cookie cutter builds or get hung up on dps meters, sure they are good to see if you are struggling and what you need to improve on but thats where the usefulness stops. Play to enjoy the game, that means speccing how you want.
One bit of advice is stick to one tree until you have ‘maxed’ it out, especially with combat as killing spree is a ton of fun 🙂
You almost have me wanting to re sub and roll a rogue again but I’ll try hold off for cataclysm
Sorry forgot to say check out Slice and Dice @ http://samueltempus.wordpress.com/ he has some really good guides and pointers which I used a hell of alot (it aint exactly elitist jerks but he communicates the info well)